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Vasco Grilo's avatar

Thanks for the post, Andy! I think increasing the consumption of animal-based food is beneficial. It decreases the number of soil nematodes, mites, and springtails via increasing cropland, which is among the biomes with the lowest density of those animals, and my best guess is that they have negative lives (with probability 58.7 %, 55.8 %, and 55.0 %; I am very uncertain). I estimate School Plates in 2023, and Veganuary in 2024 harmed those animals 5.75 k and 3.85 k times as much as they benefited farmed animals (https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/Rjutj7Jd2v2KHvDyA/cost-effectiveness-accounting-for-soil-nematodes-mites-and).

"The first reason is that if we are mainly worried about terrestrial vertebrate animals, nature basically does not exist compared to animal agriculture"

Biomass is not the best proxy for the absolute value of welfare. Based on the relationship between Rethink Priorities' mainline welfare ranges, and neuron counts, I calculated soil nematodes, mites, and springtails have (in expectation) a welfare of -4.36*10^-6, -1.57*10^-5, and -2.35*10^-5 QALY/animal-year (https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/Rjutj7Jd2v2KHvDyA/cost-effectiveness-accounting-for-soil-nematodes-mites-and). I also estimated they have an annual welfare of -296 k, -13.9 k, and -10.4 k times that of humans.

"The second reason is that no matter how much suffering already exists in the world, more suffering is still bad."

I very much agree. However, I think more factory-farming decreases global suffering due to decreasing the suffering of wild animals much more than it increases the suffering of farmed animals.

"The third reason is that the suffering of wild animals can still be very bad even though we have much less control over it."

I agree, but I would say we have control over it to a significant extent. I believe it is currently very difficult to change the welfare per wild-animal-year, but wild animal welfare can also be improved by decreasing negative wild-animal-years. For my best guess that wild animals have negative lives, I think this can be achieved by increasing cropland, such as by extending human lives, and therefore increasing food consumption (https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/Rjutj7Jd2v2KHvDyA/cost-effectiveness-accounting-for-soil-nematodes-mites-and).

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