18 Comments
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Joshua Blake's avatar

I would guess return rates are higher buying online because you've not seen the items. Much easier to have got something that's not the size you were expecting, different colour, etc etc.

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Joshua Blake's avatar

I'd guess this effect isn't large enough to change the bottom line though

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Luca Gattoni-Celli's avatar

People are going to be big mad in the comments, I support you.

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BKE's avatar

It sad that most Americans have only those two options. I live in Europe and almost everything I need is available within 15 minutes of bike ride and 2 big grocery stores are reachable within 5 minutes on foot. I still order sometimes from Amazon, but they don't deliver to me because it's much more convenient (for everyone) to deliver to a nearby packstation, also around 3 minutes away on foot.

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Andy Masley's avatar

I'd love to get everyone to a nice dense walkable city but I've become pretty convinced this is not a good short term bet in America

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BKE's avatar

Admittedly I'm not into US politics, but I am still rather confounded when I hear this sentiment (and have multiple times). I think, sustainable city design, zoning, and transportation should be priority number one and would have orders of magnitude bigger effect than arguing over whether Amazon deliveries or driving to the store are marginally better (both seem to be quite bad). Yet, many people whose opinions I listen to, seem to feel any structural change is a lost cause and can only imagine marginal improvements in the existing framework (of car dependency).

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Nathan Young's avatar

king

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Steffy B's avatar

Gonna assume this is at least somewhat inspired by my comment on the vegan blog! I am honored that I have something better to show than just a comment now when someone asks me about this. For the record, I mostly bike or walk for my groceries (but thanks to you I know now that a lot is negated for getting meat and it's bye products)

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Ferdows Ather, MD's avatar

Cool and interesting analysis! Another factor that might tip the balance (in terms of better for the climate) favoring delivery is that, at least where I live, there is an option in Amazon during checkout to have all my items delivered on some kind of "Amazon day", instead of 1-2 days of when I ordered. I guess they bundle up all the items we ordered over a week (and yes, we order a lot!) into that one day, so they save on packaging, and only have to stop at our house once that week, which might optimize their delivery route more. We've actually been doing this a lot, not necessarily for the measly 1% cashback bonus or even for the "sustainability" benefit with the little green leaf icon on checkout, but just because it has been more convenient to get everything delivered at once, and on a day we're planning to be home instead of risking a package being swiped.

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Nicole Hennig's avatar

We don’t own a car and we use Amazon for getting most stuff. We use Instacart for grocery deliveries. (We work from home). It would be interesting to look at Instacart and GrubHub/UberEats with their individual drivers. How might those compare?

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Radek's avatar

The "encourages people to buy more stuff" thing doesnt make sense either. What else are you gonna do with your income? Save it i guess. But that just means you'll spend (more) later. I get arguing about *what* you buy. But *that* you buy?

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Andy Masley's avatar

I can see an argument that Amazon makes it more enticing to buy bullshit you might not need

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Radek's avatar

Maybe, but if I dont spend my 100$ on “bullshit I dont need from Amazon”, I'll just spend it on something else. And there's no guarantee that “bullshit I dont need from Amazon” has higher carbon footprint than “nonbullshit i do need from some other source”

We buy a lot of stuff because we have a lot of money.

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Oliver Twist's avatar

I recommend donating your "bullshit you don't need" money to highly effective charities, instead :)

Andy's recommendations from his About page:

https://funds.effectivealtruism.org/funds/animal-welfare

https://www.givewell.org/top-charities-fund

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Radek's avatar

Probably a good recommendation. Still, I dont think the existence of Amazon leads people to donate less to charity and good causes, but rather just reshuffles their non-altruistic spending. And to the extent that giving to charity is a form of spending, this is part of my point - what matters is *what* you spend your money on, not *how much* you spend, since the latter is simply a function of your income

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Gene Closuit's avatar

I’m genuinely disheartened to see support for Amazon and Jeff Bezos, especially considering the broader context. Bezos, one of the wealthiest individuals on Earth, just spent millions on a lavish wedding—while nearly half the planet struggles with hunger, poverty, and climate disasters. The contrast is staggering. Meanwhile, Amazon continues to face serious criticism for its treatment of workers, its contribution to environmental degradation, and its business practices that fuel overconsumption. Returned items are often destroyed, packaging waste is astronomical, and the fast-shipping model encourages disposable consumerism. This is the opposite of what a sustainable, ethical future requires.

Supporting this company and its billionaire founder raises important questions about values, priorities, and justice.

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Andy Masley's avatar

Well except for returns each of these is a separate claim! I’m writing about the environmental impact, not anything else about the companies.

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Gene Closuit's avatar

I know! So many claims… Sorry, I just get really angry with companies like this, and I can't help telling off my many lazy friends who keep buying bullshit (as you said earlier) while also claiming they want to save the planet. I mean, we all try our best, right?

But honestly, boycotting Amazon is easier than people think, you'd be surprised. Their prices aren’t even the cheapest anymore... well at least here in UK.

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